Dr. Natali Edmonds 0:00
When somebody has dementia, their brain is starting to change things that they were able to make sense of, don't, aren't making sense the way they used to the way that they're perceiving the world. They're not perceiving the world in that way anymore. So the I call them traps, because when you're caring for a loved one with dementia, chances are you have years of experience with this person. So you have years of interacting with somebody in a certain kind of way, the way you interact with them, talk to them, question them. And when they, when they get dementia and that dementia progresses, we actually have to change our approach, the approaches that we've been using for years and years and years may start to backfire on us. So I call them tracks because they're almost like reflexes. It's almost like, well, that's the way we would talk to almost, you know, like 99% of the people in our life are that's the way we've always talked to that person prior to this dementia diagnosis. But what we end up discovering is that those ways of interactions tend to make things a lot more difficult and can backfire. So for example, one of the thinking one of the caregiver traps, is arguing. So my big recommendation is, you don't want to argue Now, of course, we don't really want to argue with anybody at any time. But it's really important in dementia, because the problem is whenever we want to argue with somebody, you're doing so with the idea that you have the ability to change that person's mind that perhaps if you gave them more evidence, if you showed them you know, you lined up all the evidence, you would be able to change their mind. But a lot of times the brain with dementia is not going to change their mind, no matter how much evidence you give to them because their brain is processing it in a different way.

Dr. Regina Koepp 1:59
I'm Dr. Regina Koepp, I'm a board certified clinical psychologist and I specialize with older adults and families. I created the psychology of aging podcast to answer some of the most common questions I get about aging questions about mental health and wellness changes in the brain like with dementia, relationships and sex, caregiving, and even end of life. Like I say in my therapy group, no topic is off topic. We just have to have a healthy way of talking about it. So if you're an older adult, or caring for one, you're in the right place. Let's get started.

Dr. Regina Koepp 2:41
In the past few weeks, I've been talking a lot about dementia. And we're gonna keep that trend going today. Today I interview Dr. Natalie Edmonds, who is a Board Certified Jarrow psychologist and specializes in helping families manage the challenges of caring for a loved one with dementia. She's the creator of dementia care blazers, an online resource for dementia caregivers to get the support information and strategies they need to take the best care of themselves and their loved ones with dementia. She has a YouTube channel where she posts a weekly video on dementia caregiving, and has gained over 4 million views. I think at the time of this recording, she has like 65,000 subscribers. Her videos are actionable and brief, and attend to all the most frequently asked questions about dementia. Let's jump into the interview with Dr. Natalie Edmonds.

Dr. Regina Koepp 3:36
Dr. Natalie Edmonds. Thank you so much for joining me today on the psychology of eating podcast. Thank you for having me on your podcast. I'm super excited to be here. So Dr. Natalie, how did you get interested in dementia caregiving?

Dr. Natali Edmonds 3:51
So this really started, it started a long time we'll start in about 2008 was one of my first official experience working with the geriatric population, and especially people with dementia. I did a fellowship it was one year long, six months of the year, I was traveling to people's homes and seeing them in their homes. So there was a lot of people there who had dementia and their family members caring for them. And what I noticed there was that, you know, when you're driving to people's homes, in a workday, you can only see a handful of people a day, because you have to account for all that travel time. And what I started noticing was that people started to have similar questions. I would go from one house to another house to another house, they had similar struggles, similar questions. They felt so alone, like nobody knew could relate to what they were going through. And I'm just thinking, Oh my gosh, they could just see, you know, the other people that I was just with, like, they would totally know they're not alone. And, you know, feel like other people understood. And then the second part of that fellowship was me working in an outpatient geriatric clinic which was amazing. It was an interdisciplinary team, it was me, the gero psychologist, I was doing the assessment. So I would be testing the person for dementia. We would have a social worker, we have an occupational therapist, a speech pathologist, and then the physician, we'd all do our assessment, we'd come together at the end, we'd write up all of our recommendations, we invite the whole family, whoever they want to come in, and we would spend a minimum of an hour going over our findings. This is really where families got their, their, the diagnosis for the first time. I feel like in the healthcare field, that is a really great, we were getting great care, I felt really good about that. But there was this part of me that didn't we said by, you know, then it was like an after an hour of going through all this information, we printed everything out. We gave them books, we gave them pamphlets, all this stuff, it was like most of them would probably see in a year just to follow up and I just thought, oh, what are they going to do in a year, like, this is a disease for the most part that's progressing. So then I was like, Oh, you know what, I'm going to start doing individual appointments, I will invite some of the caregivers who really seemed like they needed help to come and see me in my office hours, and I would work with them there. But then that meant they had to arrange for care for their loved one, they had to take the time away from their own work or their own family to come and be in that appointment. It was like a three hour ordeal A lot of times when he talked about like the travel the appointment the travel back, and like that's not really working. I'm like, maybe we could do like a support group, we'll get more people together. And and then that didn't take care of the problem of like, well, who's going to care for their loved one in that moment, it was still time and I just, there was just so many things, I thought there has got to be a better way.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 6:35
As great of care as I thought we were doing. There was so little attention on the family members, the family members who are keeping that loved one with dementia Safe at Home, that family member who was doing all of the care, waiting a year or six months for a follow up appointment to talk about all of the struggles and challenges they're facing is just not enough, especially when you consider what I'm saying that these little things in the beginning, where are we at the relationship, it's never too late to start to make some of that repair. But if we can give this information to people upfront, and give them the tools, they need to set them up for as much success and not ignore the people who are doing the majority of care for people with dementia, then let's do it. And I admit like I was really scared, and wasn't quite sure how to do it. Like I don't have like tech skills, like there's so many things stopping me from doing it. And my big wake up call when I made my very first video was I was I was I got back into a position where I was full time seeing the people in the home, I loved spending the time in the home, seeing how they lived seeing how the family interacted all of that.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 7:39
I was leaving a patient's home, and I got totally t-boned in the intersection. Total government vehicle airbags went off, it was really, really scary. I still continue to work in that field for quite a while. But it was my wake up call that I want to help as many people as possible know they're not alone and get the tools to help set them up for as much success as possible when they care for their loved one with dementia. And our healthcare system just isn't set up to do it. And you know, driving to a support group to wonder if maybe another person will be there if it's still even going. That's just not fair for the family members whose time is so precious. So it was really soon after that car accident. I just press record on my iPhone. And I and the very first video I ever did actually was on what's the difference between Alzheimer's and dementia. So I just started recording every Sunday video topic of the things that my patients are talking about the questions my patients were having that I was saying over and over again, what were the common struggles? What were the common questions. And so every Sunday, I would just turn on my my phone, and then answer that for other people out there in the world who might need that information. And I don't know how but it's somehow grown into something pretty amazing. And I think the last time I looked at my channel, I have over 4 million people who have viewed my channel worldwide. And that really means a lot like as long as you have an internet connection. I want you to be able to have some trustworthy information at your fingertips.

Dr. Regina Koepp 9:10
Yes, It's so valuable, what you're doing, and then you've created a lot of tips and recommendations for caregivers. Some of those are the three caregiving traps. So what are the three common caregiver traps?

Dr. Natali Edmonds 9:26
So when somebody has dementia, their brain is starting to change, things that they were able to make sense of don't aren't making sense the way they used to the way that they're perceiving the world. They're not perceiving the world in that way anymore. So the I call them traps because when you're caring for a loved one with dementia, chances are you have years of experience with this person. So you have years of interacting with somebody in a certain kind of way, the way you interact with them, talk to them, question them. And when they, when they get dementia and that dementia progresses, we actually have to change our approach, the approaches that we've been using for years and years and years may start to backfire on us. So I call them tracks because they're almost like reflexes, it's almost like, well, that's the way we would talk to almost, you know, like 99% of the people in our life, or that's the way we've always talked to that person prior to this dementia diagnosis. But what we end up discovering is that those ways of interactions tend to make things a lot more difficult and can backfire. So for example, one of the thinking one of the caregiver traps, is arguing. So my big recommendation is, you don't want to argue Now, of course, we don't really want to argue with anybody at any time. But it's really important in dementia, because the problem is, whenever we want to argue with somebody you're doing so with the idea that you have the ability to change that person's mind that perhaps if you gave them more evidence, if you showed them, you know, you lined up all the evidence, you would be able to change their mind. But a lot of times the brain with dementia is not going to change their mind, no matter how much evidence you give to them, because their brain is processing it in a different way. So if I were to use an example of, let's say, your loved one with dementia is accusing you of stealing all their money. Now, of course, you're not stealing their money, or maybe you've helped over, you're helping oversee their money because they've been a victim of scams, or they're forgetting to pay their bills, or they're at risk for foreclosure. You know, at some point in dementia, it becomes difficult to manage finances. So let's say you've started to take over the finances. What I like to, instead of trying to argue with them, which is just going to make it worse, they're going to get more frustrated, you're going to get more frustrated, is you want to there's three steps I like to talk about here, you want to just validate what they're saying. So you could just literally say, like, you don't want me to take your money. It's just very simple, right? And they might respond with course, this is my money, you shouldn't be taking it however they respond. You want to acknowledge the feeling under the words. So you might want to say something like you're you're upset, just as simple as that. And then from there, you want to comfort and redirect, what often ends up happening is we want to jump to the redirection right away. Somebody your loved one with dementia is accusing you of stealing their money or having an affair or whatever it is. And maybe you've gotten, you have it in your mind, okay, the arguing doesn't work, we just both end up more upset, but you want it so then you're like, oh, I'll try this redirection thing. I'll try to change their focus. If we jump into it too quickly, the person with dementia just feels like they're, they're not being heard. So by validating what they're saying, you don't want me to take your money, acknowledging how they feel under the words, you're feeling upset, then you comfort and redirect. And this is where I just, I would encourage people to open up a dialogue. Right? You can invite them to say more like, money's really important to you. Tell me what you love most about having all your money. And then use whatever information they give you to find your you're opening to find that redirection possibility. So they might tell you what they like about their money and why it's so important for them and you get to hear them out. And then you can say, I love I love money too. You know what I love? One of the things I love about money is that I can buy my favorite foods. Like I could buy fresh fruit like watermelon. And you know what, watermelon sounds really good right now. I think we have some in the kitchen. Let's walk over there. And by the time you've engaged in this conversation, you're you're now redirecting to something totally different. And the whole thing in the beginning that could have led to an argument is now no longer an issue. I think the hardest part about this is number one just getting comfortable with redirection which you will get comfortable, the more you practice. But the other thing that's so different in Dementia Care then in like regular interactions is that there doesn't feel like an ending, like so for me and you we would want that ending you know, like, let's let's put this to rest. Let's just finally get them to see like, of course, I'm not taking your money. Here's all the bank receipts, here's this, here's you know, but it doesn't work that way. It really is I like to say learning a whole new language with somebody who has dementia. So there might not be a nice, closed ending. But your goal here is how do we defuse the situation? How do we comfort this person with redirection and how do we move on to something more pleasant? And I'm really passionate about these three traps because the overall picture here is that there's going to be so much help that your loved one needs with this disease as it progresses.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 15:00
And all the little things along the way, that kind of wear away at the relationship that puts strain on the relationship will make you trying to help them that much more difficult down the road. So for example, they might not be able to tell you exactly what it is that they're upset about, or what it is, they might not be able to remember exactly what you said or what you did. But day after day, year after year, we're talking, you know, 2, 5, 15 years of caring for somebody with dementia, they can remember that general feeling. And so they will become, they are more likely to become resistant to your care and help in the future. This is why you might notice a neighbor or a family member who hardly ever assists with direct caregiving comes to visit and your loved one seems so much more pleasant, they don't seem so irritable, they seem like they're actually doing better on those days. And it really begins in the beginning with these little things that kind of wear away at the strain of the relationship.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 16:03
So the first caregiver trap is don't argue, and I just say that from, it's not necessarily like you wanting to argue it's really you wanting to defend yourself, you're doing things to try to help your loved one. And they're viewing it as harmful. So rather than trying to directly change their point of view, which often makes things worse, it's kind of validate acknowledge their feeling that's comfort and then look for that redirection. That would be my recommendation for this caregiver trap.

Dr. Regina Koepp 16:35
The arguing trap, yeah. And the example of the neighbor coming over and your loved one is so pleasant with them. And yeah, I know, I would, I would have clients that I would work with our families that I would work with, with dementia, they would come into the clinic, where I worked, I was in a medical system, but an outpatient clinic, and, and I would meet them, and I'd say like, for example, Ms. Jones, come back and meet with me. And their family member would say she would never come in if I was the one asking she would never follow me. And the family is just constantly frustrated and wondering, Well, so Is she that sick? Or maybe she just does this with me?

Dr. Natali Edmonds 17:19
It makes it really confusing. It's like, is my loved one putting me on? You know, are they doing things to make my life more difficult on purpose? And there's, it's not as simple as like it might seem and just like this conversation, there's a lot of different factors involved. But whenever we can start to improve in one factor, and then another factor, it really does start to have a compound effect. So I think the challenge here is just realizing like, we have to change our interaction. And, you know, if it was like somebody who didn't have dementia, and they were accusing you of stealing their money, you would absolutely say that's not right. Here's bank statements like, let's This is, I don't know where you're getting this, you know, but for the person with dementia, it just doesn't work the same way. And so I think the hard part is kind of adjusting to that.

Dr. Regina Koepp 18:05
And learning the new language.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 18:07
Right. Absolutely.

Dr. Regina Koepp 18:08
Yeah. And a new way of interacting.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 18:11
Yeah, absolutely. It's a total new way of interacting. And I guess I want to emphasize here is that nobody's perfect, right? We're, we're gut like, of the three I have tomorrow, I'll share here in a moment. But like, we're gonna slip back into these things. we've communicated the majority of our life kind of using these things. And so it's totally natural that every now and then you would slip back into it with your loved one who has dementia. And especially when you add things like not great sleep, other caregiving demands all the other like trying to organize your own health and your loved ones health, probably other family members, maybe a job like the more things you add on top of it, like some days, you're just, it's gonna go out the window, and you're gonna just respond however you want to respond. And it's totally okay.

Dr. Regina Koepp 18:56
Just just like learning language, you make a mistake, and you keep trying.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 19:00
Totally, absolutely. So the second caregiver trap I like to talk about is to avoid reasoning. So reasoning makes really sense a lot of sentence very similar to avoiding the arguing. But this is where it's really important to like join your loved ones world, when you're trying to find a way to respond to perhaps a behavior that shows they're in distress. We're not going to really be able to get very far solving it from our point of view. So like, for example, if your loved ones having visual hallucinations, and they are seeing there's kids in the living room right now, what are they doing here? Right? You trying to use reasoning might say there are no kids here. Look, I'm standing in the spot where you say the kids are, they're not here. I've even had family members will like record, have a video camera and say, Look, nobody is coming into the home. Nobody is here right now, right. And it makes total sense that somebody would use the reasoning to try to convince somebody or show somebody, you know what's really happening. But the thing is, the person with dementia, their brain is literally seeing those kids. And so when you say, it's there, they're not there. And it starts to, again, another one of those things that wears away at the relationship. But it also starts to your loved one is more likely to be suspicious of you not trust, you start to question you. And again, in that moment, and even well down the line is going to make your caregiving experience that much more difficult. So the hallucinations is like a really easy example of like, we don't want to reason with them, their brain is actually showing them this thing that we don't see. And so we have to come up with a way to respond that helps these them that comforts them, this is a really great place to say, oh, there's kids right there. Okay, they shouldn't be there. You know what, let me take care of that here, walk with me, let's go sit over here in the kitchen, give them a cup of water, whatever it is, I'm going to go take care of their kids, I'm going to go call their parents or something like that. So you solve the problem from their point of view. If we solve it, from our point of view, we'd be being in our heads against the wall, because we'd just be saying nobody is there. And so this is a really good example of like, the reasoning that we would use and 99% of our conversations with other people. And the way that you've interacted with your loved one all those years is not the reasoning is not what you would use now, in this disease process. Another common example would be somebody who is insisting I want to go home, you know, like, I want to go home, I want to go home, but they are at home, right. And so you could be trying to say, like, you're at home, this is your home, we've lived here for 25 years, you see that picture, that's you, you see your bed like this is your closet, these are your clothes. And the more you're trying to reason from your point of view, the more upset and agitated and frustrated your loved ones be coming. And this is another great place where you can use those three tips, three tips from before and the don't argue phase, where you can just, you know, validate what they're saying you want to go home, right? acknowledge the feeling under their words, you miss your home, right? And then you can do the comfort and redirection. And again, this is where you just engage in a conversation, right? A lot of times when somebody with dementia says they want to go home, it's usually a home associated from a time in their younger years. And so you can ask them like what do you miss about your home? What did you like most about your home? And listen for though, what their responses to then again, give you that opening for redirection? Oh, you really liked your garden? Yes, I grew all the vegetables, you know all the things? What was your favorite vegetable to grow? Oh, tomatoes. You know what? I think we have some tomatoes. That sounds so good right now. You know what, I love flowers, too. Have you ever tried growing flowers, and all of a sudden, you're no longer talking about wanting to go home, you're on something, again, totally different. Again, it's hard for the caregiver. Because we want the close, we want the closed loop like, okay, we've taken care of this, they realize they're at home now. And dimension like this might come up again and again and again. And so you'll just use the you'll use your response, you'll use this kind of framework again and again. And again. A lot of times, sometimes people will ask me like, Well, how do I know it's working? Like how do I know this is working? And the way that you know how you're handling things is working, is based on your loved ones response. So if your response is, seems to be making your loved one more frustrated and agitated, it's just feedback. Okay, that's not the response. I am going to try Let me try something else. But if your response, all of a sudden has an eating tomatoes in the kitchen, yes, that is a success. And if it happens again, tomorrow, you use the same framework, it might not be tomatoes tomorrow, it might be something totally different. And that's okay. But a lot of times, I see caregivers get discouraged that things keep happening and keep happening. And we certainly want to see if there's like an underlying thing that we can take care of to help remove their distress, you know, for example, pain if they keep like, tugging at their pants or something. And, you know, like we definitely want to have that detective mindset like is there something we can help improve? But a lot of times with the behaviors, it's it's their belief in their mind, and no amount of reasoning is going to be able to change that belief. So how do we acknowledge them and be able to move forward in the day and then keep going back to to that approach moving forward if that happens.

Dr. Regina Koepp 24:54
Oh, that's helpful. Okay. The one of the one of the examples that popped up was around infidelity. That's one that I would get a lot. It's hard to validate: "Yes, I'm having an affair."

Dr. Natali Edmonds 25:08
And you don't have to, you don't have to agree to it. A lot of times, I like to remind caregivers, just because you don't correct them. Just because you don't argue with them. It doesn't mean you agree with them. So like in the infidelity example, you can say, You think I'm having an affair? Or you think I'm with somebody? And they might respond and say, yeah, you are? I don't think so. I know. So whatever it might be, right. And you can say, You're hurt right now. Or you're mad right now, whatever you think that emotion is right. And like, Yeah, and I felt like you say, and then again, this is where you comfort and redirect, you can go back to that framework and say, Only a fool would ever do something like that to you. I still remember the very first time I saw you, and that beautiful smile, you had the most beautiful smile ever. Do you remember that first day that we met? Well, and then like, at some point, you know, like, you get into that conversation. So but you don't jump to it right away. Because if you tried to jump to it right away, they're gonna be like, no, but your heaven was there, I saw you with that woman, I saw you with the neighbor. You know, and so it's like, you can even say, I'm so sorry, you're feeling that way. Or I understand you're upset with me right now. Like, it's just the validation, acknowledging their feelings, you know, what I would be pretty sad to have I thought that was happening. And then you engage in that conversation. And, and you start to redirect. And like you talked about, you know, for, like the example that I was going on, like, remember that first time we met, you know, we were walking down to the lunch and dinner and like, Oh, there goes that smile. That's the smile, right? And like, again, you move off it, it does take practice, it's just like learning a new language. If we're using that analogy of learning a new language. It's rough in the beginning, you might only like be able to get like one word out. Or it might be really choppy. Or you might say something and that other person, the language and other person has no idea what you're saying, true and dementia as well, you might try the redirection and it flops or it doesn't go well or it's really choppy, or it's not smooth. But the more you practice it, the more natural it gets, just like learning a new language.

Dr. Regina Koepp 27:17
That's very helpful. Okay, what's the third trap?

Dr. Natali Edmonds 27:20
Okay, the third trap is you don't want to correct now that this is really important, because in caring for somebody with dementia, there's going to be so many things that they're going to need help with down the road, right? And there's going to be no shortage of things. Where are no no shortage of times where they're doing something wrong, or they're saying something incorrectly? Right? And again, it gets back to is this worth another wearing away of the relationship? My general rule of thumb is, if imminent safety concern is not happening, if there is not an imminent safety concern, can we just let this one go? Can we just not even correct them? You know, if they say somebody called them and that person has been dead for 10 years, we don't need to remind them with that. You know, if they said they visited with somebody, or they ate something they didn't eat, it doesn't matter. Again, this is another one of those reflexes that we would probably easily just correct with anybody else. Oh, no, we went to lunch yesterday, not Wednesday, or no, that person didn't call you, you know, they were with me today. Like we would probably do it without thinking and another person with their brain fully functioning the way that it shouldn't like, Oh, yeah, I, I totally forgot. But with a person with dementia, you risk so much more in the strain on the relationship, that it's not worth it. Here's where you really want to choose your battles wisely. And I I tend to just say, if it's not a safety concern, is this something you can just let go?

Dr. Regina Koepp 28:44
Mm hmm. These are great recommendations. So So the first is don't argue. And the second is don't reason. And the third is don't correct.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 28:56
Absolutely. That's if you want to maintain the best possible relationship with your loved one moving forward. Not only like in the moment, it's like using the kind of three steps of kind of validating, acknowledging how they feel, and then comforting and redirecting like that will help them in a moment. But trying to avoid these three things as much as possible, will help and maintaining your relationship in the future, which is so important because as your loved one starts to need help with dressing, and bathing, and toileting and eating a lot of these really intimate hands on care tasks. You want as much as possible, your face and your presence to be associated with, you know, pleasant, not that it's always pleasant, butnot so much focused on the person who's always telling me I'm doing something wrong. The person who's always telling me what I'm saying is not true. The person who's always telling me, you know, what, I believe isn't right, like so we're just trying to avoid that as much as possible. It doesn't mean you let your loved one do whatever they want to do, absolutely not, but we just become really aware of our approach and how we decide we're going to intervene with our loved one. And it's usually not the direct heads on approach we would use with most people in our life.

Dr. Regina Koepp 30:10
Right? Yeah. These are really helpful strategies. When we were preparing for this interview, you said that you have one top recommendation for caregivers. So what is that recommendation that number one recommendation

Dr. Natali Edmonds 30:25
Okay. So when you think about somebody caring for somebody with dementia, which can last for years and years and years, and you also have to consider most of the people caring for a loved one with dementia are pretty caring people, right. But if I can just like put on a billboard, somewhere, I would just want every caregiver to let it sink in, that there is no amount of guilt, no amount of suffering, no amount of sacrifice, no amount of withholding joy from yourself, that will ever change the fact that your loved one has dementia. And what I mean by that is that so many times, like caregivers put their entire life on hold. And I understand like, in many respects, your whole life does get turned upside down, and you need to make a lot of different changes. But so many people will maybe they are in the shower when they can't even be carrying with it with their loved one in that moment. And they're worried their mind is going or they might have the opportunity to I used to work with a caregiver who would go out to lunch with a friend, and then just have so much guilt, the moment she realized that her loved one couldn't be there with her. Right. And it's like, if I thought that feeling guilty, and worrying and withholding all joy from yourself would somehow make this disease go away and somehow benefit your loved one. I might, I might entertain the idea. Okay, let's let's guilt trip ourselves. But it really does. It does absolutely nothing. And so I know it's a, it's a big statement. But if it can just sink in a little bit, if you have any moment, any chance for joy or just to be in the present moment, like without the worry, the guilt, the withholding of joy, please do because none of it what will change the dementia. And that's what a lot of my videos are on my YouTube channel is like, how do you start to implement self care? How do you start to live a life that you feel good about? without sacrificing your time without sacrificing your money without having to hire help? Like there are really practical, realistic ways. And I spend a lot of my videos talking about those things. So you can slowly start to implement it.

Dr. Regina Koepp 32:48
Yeah, and speaking of your videos, where can people find them?

Dr. Natali Edmonds 32:52
Yeah, so probably the easiest way is to go to my website, www.careblazers.com. Everything that I do is kind of on that website. There's a little link on the top that says TV and you can click on it, it will link you to my YouTube channel. Or if you just type in Careblazers on Google it'll pop up.

Dr. Regina Koepp 33:10
Yeah, it's so easy to find and I love how wide reaching your tips and resources are going internationally. So that everybody has these, like you said trustworthy resources. And you're a Board Certified Gero-psychologist - I think less than 5% probably much less than 3% are Gero psychologists board certified Gero psychologists.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 33:32
So that's Yeah, I forget when I got board certified, I think the exact number but I think there was like less than 50 of us in the country or in the world, you know? Yeah. So it's growing, more and more people are starting to come into the field of geriatrics, and it's much needed. So it's wonderful.

Dr. Regina Koepp 33:49
Yeah, here here, I completely agree. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. And I'll link to all of your website and the YouTube channel in the show notes app.

Dr. Natali Edmonds 34:00
Thank you for having me.

Dr. Regina Koepp 34:03

If you are concerned about a loved one with memory loss, download my free memory loss guide. In it I talk about the signs to be mindful of. I talked about the benefits of early diagnosis of dementia and what to do if you're worried that your loved one is showing some of the signs and symptoms of dementia. So head on over to the show notes and download that free memory loss guide now, and just a reminder, I would love for you to join my caring for aging parents community on Facebook, where we support each other in caring for our older loved ones. You guessed it, I'll link to that in the show notes as well. That's all for today. Now it's your turn. All you have to do is subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with others so that they can be part of the conversation too. One last thing, a special thanks to Jhazzmyn Joiner, our psychology of aging podcast intern, for all you do. Lots of love to you and your family. Bye for now.